CNN Newsroom: Global View

home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search

/ CNN Newsroom: Global View / CNN Newsroom: Global View.iso / txt / fbis / fbis0391.001 < prev next >

Wrap

Text File | 1994-05-02 | 10.3 KB | 255 lines

<text> <title> Georgia's Gamsakhurdia Views Ethnic Conflict </title> <article> <hdr> Foreign Broadcast Information Service, March 12, 1991 Georgia's Gamsakhurdia Views Ethnic Conflict </hdr> <body> [Unattributed interview with Georgian President Zviad Gamsakhurdia; place, date not given: "Moscow Foments Conflicts." Hamburg DER SPIEGEL in German 11 Mar 91 pp 191-197] [Text] [DER SPIEGEL] Mr. President, a civil war has been going on in Georgia for two months.... [Gamsakhurdia] It is not a civil war but a war of the Kremlin against Georgia, which was started in the town of Tskhinvali by Ossetian extremists, who are in the pay of Moscow. [DER SPIEGEL] Ossetian and Georgian citizens are shooting at each other. [Gamsakhurdia] It is not a civil war. The Ossetian and the Georgian populations are not standing face to face. They are extremists supported by Moscow, equipped with machine guns, missiles, grenade launchers, mines, and modern arms. [DER SPIEGEL] Are Moscow's police troops not trying to keep the two hostile parties apart? [Gamsakhurdia] Far from that, the units of the Interior Ministry are playing a double game: sometimes they help one side, than the other; but usually they help the Ossetians. Moreover, the central government does not even stop at direct intervention: All attacks by the extremists are supported by the Soviet Army, which supplies them with arms. [DER SPIEGEL] In 1989 there were bloody clashes with Georgian Abkhazians and also with Azerbaijanis. Were these clashes also provoked by Moscow? [Gamsakhurdia] Of course. As soon as we intensify our independence struggle Moscow foments ethnic conflicts and even openly threatens to do so. [DER SPIEGEL] How does it voice such threats? [Gamsakhurdia] On 25 February, the 70th anniversary of the occupation of Georgia, Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev rang me, which was probably intended to have a symbolic significance. He asked me: "How do you feel? I would like to tell from your voice how you feel." [DER SPIEGEL] The previous day seven Georgians were murdered in South Ossetia. [Gamsakhurdia] This is why as a first reaction I said that my voice sounded like that of a man who had just lost seven close relatives. I would like to quote the dialogue that followed: Gorbachev: You are still not willing to sign the Union Treaty? I: That is not only my position but that of my people. Gorbachev: Do you know that Abkhazians and Ossetians did sign the Union treaty and will participate in the Union referendum? I: They account for 140,000 people, while Georgia has a population of 5 million. Gorbachev, after a long interval: Think carefully about signing the Union treaty. I: It is out of the question for us. Gorbachev: Then prepare yourself for great difficulties in South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Now you know who really needs the war in South Ossetia and why. [DER SPIEGEL] Are there no Georgians who support the continued existence of the USSR and such a treaty? [Gamsakhurdia] The overwhelming majority does not want it, which is why the Georgians will not participate in the referendum on the Union. We will hold our own referendum on 31 March. [DER SPIEGEL] Why only after the Union referendum of 17 March? [Gamsakhurdia] We cannot do it earlier, because in the mountains many streets are still impassible. Besides, we do not want to be told when to do it. After all, it is not really a question of our attitude toward the Union. In legal terms, Georgia is strictly speaking not part of the Union, because we never joined the Soviet state. Our people only have to answer a single question: Georgian independence--yes or no? [DER SPIEGEL] Will you guarantee the Ossetians national minority rights when Georgia leaves the Union? [Gamsakhurdia] The majority of the Georgian Ossetians sides with us and rejects the agents provocateurs. One hour ago I received an Ossetian delegation that wants to hold a hunger strike in Moscow against the desire for autonomy by the extremists of Tskhinvali. In Georgia the national minorities enjoy all rights. It is the Georgians who live under an apartheid-like regime in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. More than 10,000 Georgians are refugees in their own country. [DER SPIEGEL] The Ossetians have mentioned 4,000 refugees. Nevertheless, they are denied autonomy within Georgia? [Gamsakhurdia] Because they do not have a right to state autonomy. We cannot admit to becoming strangers in our own territories. Can you imagine Turks founding a republic of their own inside Germany? If they were ever to try to do so, you can be sure that advisers from Moscow are somehow involved. [DER SPIEGEL] A South Ossetian leader, Tores Kulumbegov, was arrested recently. Did he confirm your suspicion of remote control? [Gamsakhurdia] In the interrogations Kulumbegov claimed to be president of an independent Ossetian republic. In psychiatric clinics one often hears of people claiming to be Napoleon, Hitler, or Stalin and no one is surprised. Yet, in this case we know that Kulumbegov and Chachiyev, his accomplice, are agents in the pay of the KGB. [DER SPIEGEL] What are you doing to separate Georgia from the Union? [Gamsakhurdia] We have adopted a new Constitution, which has nothing in common any longer with the communist Soviet regime. The Soviet structures have virtually been dissolved, and the rule of the Communist Party is part of the past, its influence has been reduced to zero. The executive power is now in the hands of prefects and elected magistrates. A completely different social order is thus being established in a peaceful way. [DER SPIEGEL] It does not meet with any obstacles? [Gamsakhurdia] Only the maneuvers of the Moscow central authorities in Abkhazia and South Ossetia are causing trouble. The Kremlin is trying to keep us under control with these hotbeds of tension. [DER SPIEGEL] Do you coordinate your policy of independence with other republics anxious to leave the Union? [Gamsakhurdia] We are trying to. Still, I have the impression that the situation in the USSR is like in a concentration camp. Everyone is trying to get out first as if others might take away part of his freedom. Hence, currently there is more competition than coordination. Nevertheless, we have identical positions as far as the Union referendum and our attitude toward Gorbachev are concerned. [DER SPIEGEL] How does Georgia think it can survive economically outside the USSR? [Gamsakhurdia] We are very anxious to set up economic ties with Western countries. Currently, we are still facing enormous problems here because Moscow has a strong influence in the West and we are isolated; the state borders are practically impenetrable. Yet, Georgia, is a rich country. Just think of our raw materials, fruit, wine, and our possibilities in the sphere of tourism. [DER SPIEGEL] Nevertheless, for one tonne of crude oil you would then have to pay 150 hard dollars instead of, currently, 23 weak rubles. [Gamsakhurdia] That is true. We have little oil, but we have the world's largest reserves in the best-quality manganese. U.S. companies are now even ready to buy drinking water, of which we have plenty. We need major investments, particularly for the development of tourism, and we have received offers from many countries. [DER SPIEGEL] Do you want to maintain economic contacts with the Union? [Gamsakhurdia] We have most friendly ties with the Russian Federation and we get along extremely well with President Boris Yeltsin. [DER SPIEGEL] The opposition of the "Georgian National Congress" has claimed that Yeltsin also represents imperialist ambitions--those of Russia and not those of the Soviet Union. [Gamsakhurdia] You must not be deceived in this connection. One can neither speak of an opposition nor of a parallel parliament, but of a group of corrupt politicians who degenerated into criminals. The people do not support them but rather hate them. [DER SPIEGEL] But you have plans to set up a national guard yourself. [Gamsakhurdia] We have already started but we must overcome great difficulties. No one supports us and we have to rely on the arms that we seized when we smashed those gangs. [DER SPIEGEL] Where did the National Congress get its arms from? [Gamsakhurdia] They bought them on the black market; moreover, they attacked Soviet soldiers almost everyday to take their weapons away, which is why the Kremlin has claimed that Georgia is preparing for an armed uprising. Thus, it was so important for us to stop those acts of provocation. As long as we do not give the Kremlin any reason for intervention its tanks will not be rolling there. [DER SPIEGEL] Are you sure that actions comparable to those in Lithuania and Latvia cannot recur here? [Gamsakhurdia] An independence movement that fights without any arms cannot be defeated. The world of today can be impressed only by a high moral standard and steadfastness. Still, if agents provocateurs were to cause a confrontation with the Soviet Army, anything would be possible. [DER SPIEGEL] The secessionist echo to his perestroyka has brought Gorbachev under pressure from the right. [Gamsakhurdia] He is a rightist himself. For some time he pretended to be of the left, but he is one of the disciples of Andropov, one of the most sinister figures of the Kremlin. Now Gorbachev is using these hotbeds of unrest as a whip with which he is permanently trying to threaten us. [DER SPIEGEL] Are acts of violence not a danger to the independence movement? [Gamsakhurdia] All these conflicts in Nagorno-Karabakh, in Fergana, and now in so-called South Ossetia and Abkhazia were inspired by the Kremlin. The peoples are always being agitated against each other so that Moscow can act as an arbiter and prolong its rule. </body> </article> </text>